Thursday, March 15, 2012

Talmudic medicine

In preparing a shiur on Alternative Medicine, I had the opportunity to review the Rambam's position on medicines and therapies recorded in the gemara, as well as the responses from sages across the generations. Here are a few sources, as food for thought; feel free to suggest corrections for my translations, which I did a little hastily:

Rambam, Moreh haNevuchim 3:37
ואמרו בפירוש כל שיש בו משום רפואה אין בו משום דרכי האמורי, רוצים בזה שכל מה שיגזרהו העיון הטבעי הוא מותר וזולתו אסור... ואל יקשה עליך מה שהתירו מהם במסמר הצלוב ושן השועל, כי הדברים ההם בזמן ההוא היו חושבים בהן שהוציא אותם הנסיון והיו משום רפואה
They said explicitly that medicinal treatments are not subject to "Emorite ways", meaning that anything mandated by natural studies is permitted, and anything else is prohibited… Do not be troubled by the Sages' permission of a tzaluv's nail or a fox's tooth, for in their day they thought these were medical products of testing...


Meiri Shabbat 67a
וזה שכתבו רבותינו ע"ה הרבה מהם בסוגיא זו ובמקומות אחרים הם נעזרו בדבר זה בצירוף בשני דברים הא' שלא היה שם דבר כדאי להטעות אלא הבלים המוניים וכזבי הנשים כמו שתראה ברובם שהיו מיחסים אותם על שם הנשים המיניקות והמגדלות את הילדים ומגדלות אותם בלימוד הבליהם והוא אמרם אמרה לי אם וכו':
והשני שמצד שהיו ההמון באותו זמן בטוח באותם הענינים היה טבעם מתחזק ונמצא מצד ההרגל עזר טבעי בהם
The fact that our Sages of blessed memory recorded many of these practices in this passage and other passages was a result of two factors:
First: These practices did not include anything which could mis-lead someone [into idolatry – MT]; these were only the empty practices of the masses and the follies of women, as you can see that the majority of them were ascribed to nursemaids and nannies of children, who raised them and inculcated in them these empty practices. Thus the sages said, "My mother [or nursemaid – MT] told me."
Second: Because the masses believed in these practices in those days, they were strengthened, and as a result of habituation they found natural help in them.


Vilna Gaon to Yoreh Deah 179:13
כל הבאים אחריו חלקו עליו שהרי הרבה לחשים נאמרו בגמרא והוא נמשך אחר הפלוסופיא ולכן כ' שכשפים ושמות ולחשים ושדים וקמיעות הכל הוא שקר אבל כבר הכו אותן על קדקדו שהרי מצינו הרבה מעשיות בגמ' ע"פ שמות וכשפים אמרה איהי מלתא ואסרתה לארבא אמרו כו' (שבת פ"א ב' חולין ק"ה ב') ובספ"ד מיתות ובירושלמי שם עובדא דר"א ור"י ובן בתירה וכן ר"ח ור"א דאיברו עיגלא תילתא ור' יהושע דאמר שם ואוקמיה בין שמיא לארעא (בכורות ח' ב') וכן אבישי בן צרויה (סנהדרין צ"ה א') והרבה כיוצא ואמרו (בספ"ד מיתות חולין ז' ב') למה נקרא שמן כשפים כו' והתורה העידה ויהיו תנינים וע' זוהר שם וכן קמיעין בהרבה מקומות ולחשים רבו מלספר. והפלסופיא הטתו ברוב לקחה לפרש הגמרא הכל בדרך הלציי ולעקור אותם מפשטן וח"ו איני מאמין בהם ולא מהם ולא מהמונם אלא כל הדברים הם כפשטן אלא שיש בהם פנימיות לא פנימיות של בעלי הפלוסופיא שהם חצוניות אלא של בעלי האמת:
All who came after him [Rambam - MT] disagreed with him, for many incantations were mentioned in the gemara. He was drawn after philosophy, and so he wrote that sorcery, Names, incantations, demons and amulets are lies, but they have already struck him upon his skull for we have found many anecdotes in the Talmud with Names and sorcery. Examples are in Shabbat 81b, Chullin 105b, the end of the seventh chapter in Sanhedrin…
Philosophy, with its many lessons, tricked him into explaining all of these talmudic passages in the manner of mockery, uprooting them from their simple explanation… All of these are in accord with their simple meanings, but they have inner meanings. Not the inner meanings of the philosophers, which are actually external, but of the people of truth.


R' Neriah Gutel, Hishtanut haTevaim baHalachah, pg. 179 citing R' Avraham ben haRambam (and see his footnote 427 there)
לא נתחייב מפני גודל מעלת חכמי התלמוד ותבונתם לשלימות תכונתם בפירוש התורה ובדקדוקיה ויושר אמריה בביאור כלליה ופרטיה שנטען להם ונעמיד דעתם בכל אמריהם ברפואות ובחכמת הטבע והתכונה ולהאמין אותם כאשר נאמין אותם בפירוש התורה שתכלית חכמתה בידם ולהם נמסרה להורותם לבני אדם
We are not obligated, due to the great stature of the Sages of the Talmud, and their understanding and complete comprehension of the explanation of Torah and its fine points and its righteous sayings in explaining its principles and specifics, to therefore argue on their behalf and support their views in all of their statements about medicines and the study of nature and mathematics, and to believe them in this as we believe them in explaining the Torah, in which the entirety of its wisdom is in their hands, and was given to them to teach to humanity.

11 comments:

  1. Did you see the reply R' Moshe Feinstein gave and R' Moshe Tendler penned when RMF was asked about homeopathy?

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  2. the is a counter statement to that statement from the gra. i saw it in some book in the yeshiva of rav zilverman in Jerusalem. It said that that statement was inserted and not really from the gra at all.

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  3. Micha-
    Indeed, yes. And the rather interesting [non-]response of R' Meir Amsel and R' Chaim Dovid haLevi, too. Readers can find those, and more, in a somewhat biased presentation here.

    Adam-
    I'd love to see the source, if you could find it.

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  4. If there is anyone you know in the old city you could ask them to go to Rav Zilverman himself and ask about it. Do you have any contacts there?
    (and tell them to say hello from me--the violinist. They will know who it is.)

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  5. In fact if you know anyone that would go to rav Zilverman maybe they could print up my little booklet on Bava Metzia and bring to him the newer version? The older version I gave to him a few years ago. Since then, I made some corrections which are essential. Plus I added some stuff at the end. I think he might enjoy it because i know that he knows bava metzia pretty well.

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  6. also the gra refers to the very famous statement of the rambam about shaedim.--but if you look up the translation of rav kapach (the yemenite Jew) done directly from the original Arabic --you will see that is not what the rambam wrote at all.

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  7. What is the consensus of today's leading medically informed poskim about:

    1. The efficacy of such treatments in the past; that is, were these placebos or something else?

    2. Likewise, their efficacy today?

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  8. Wait, the linked article quotes RMF on hypnosis (presumably for weight loss or smoking cessation or the like) and then says "oh homeopathic medicine is the same idea." -Really?

    Was there a different comment from RMF on homeopathic medicine? I've heard R' Tendler shlita go fire & brimstone about it, "if dilution like that worked, we'd have throw out all of hilchos taaruvos!"

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  9. There is a basis in Gemara for listening to the scientific experts of the day; Rabbis are experts at Halacha, not science (unless, of course, they are scientists or doctors themselves).

    Having said that, the vast majority of physicians today will tell you that homeopathy is junk. And that should therefore be the end of the discussion halachically as well.

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  10. Adam-
    Sorry, no one to send for this.

    Shalom-
    Take a look at Source 6 there, R' Tendler's response on behalf of R' Moshe.

    Anonymous 10:15 AM-
    Indeed; see Rav Aviner on this in Assia 5749.

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  11. well if there is no one to send then let me mention that some good gra scholarship has come out of Israel. the yeshiva i am referring to in the old city has made it its business to follow the gra in every detail. they are the ones that started walking around all day with tefilin on. they so they had some of the more scholarly studies on the gra. and recently there has come out a four volume biography of the gra which people in Israel have assured me is very well researched. So there are books about the gra out there. someone just needs to bring them to Canada

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