tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post4862293772955474433..comments2023-09-11T17:58:13.764-04:00Comments on The Rebbetzin's Husband: Rashi's Daughters: Joheved - Myths and Facts, Part IIThe Rebbetzin's Husbandhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-51894307215952462342008-11-09T14:04:00.000-05:002008-11-09T14:04:00.000-05:00Paige-Thanks for your comment.I am not fully verse...Paige-<BR/>Thanks for your comment.<BR/>I am not fully versed in the history of choosing a ring for the kiddushin item, but we do find French sources from roughly Rashi's period referring to טבעת הקידושין, a ring of kiddushin, and as a personal rather than communal ring. See, for example, Sefer haManhig (12th cent France) pg 536, and Raavyah (12th cent Germany) #953, who discuss kiddushin cases involving rings and don't treat this as innovative.<BR/><BR/>Mother in Israel-<BR/>In the gemara's period they would not have postponed a wedding once the meal was prepared, but beyond that I couldn't say.The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-37198056550150355072008-11-06T02:26:00.000-05:002008-11-06T02:26:00.000-05:00Another thing that I remembered--they postpone Joc...Another thing that I remembered--they postpone Jocheved's wedding because Rashi is in the year of mourning for his mother. That seems odd, to say the least.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-67232524914876229772008-11-06T01:43:00.000-05:002008-11-06T01:43:00.000-05:00I was reading this book and stopped to research as...I was reading this book and stopped to research as well and found this blog...<BR/><BR/>I wish to add another possible mistake of the writer. I recently wrote a paper about 14th Century Jewish Communal Wedding Rings-- I dont think that Joheved would have had a ring, and certainly not one of her own...I know that the the earliest rings that were recovered were from a later period, the mid-14th C.'s buried during a time of the plague progroms, also we see images introduced into Mahzors at this time. There may be Talmudic discussion about it that I have not researched, but from an art historical perspective that is what I have found, however I am a student of Jewish art history, not the Talmud...<BR/><BR/>If you have any information I may use to better my information on this ritual object, I would be pleased! <BR/><BR/>I am also also currently writing about Jewish Wedding Ritual Adornment in Moroccan life...again, I welcome all thoughts to help me better learn about these subject!<BR/><BR/>Thank you!Paige Dansingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06956700893152680814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-40651003464681110802008-10-28T14:22:00.000-04:002008-10-28T14:22:00.000-04:00Correction to my senility - thank you to the reade...Correction to my senility - thank you to the reader who pointed out that I already linked to Miss S. in my original article, six months ago.<BR/><BR/>Evidence of creeping senility, no doubt...The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-75887795059378500242008-10-27T18:52:00.000-04:002008-10-27T18:52:00.000-04:00Miss S.-Thanks, and thanks for tipping me off to y...Miss S.-<BR/>Thanks, and thanks for tipping me off to your blog. A very interesting read.The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-28607322522836160082008-10-27T17:16:00.000-04:002008-10-27T17:16:00.000-04:00Very good post (I also reviewed this book on my bl...Very good post (I also reviewed this book on my blog...a while ago though).Miss S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10887805742474651903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-34896823022674221482008-05-13T16:48:00.000-04:002008-05-13T16:48:00.000-04:00I hear your point. I cited it as it is usually cit...I hear your point. I cited it as it is usually cited, but I'll drop the "Responsa" title.The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-68078437297431103712008-05-13T16:12:00.000-04:002008-05-13T16:12:00.000-04:00I believe your cite to "16th century Responsa Maay...I believe your cite to "16th century Responsa Maayan Ganim of R’ Shemuel Arkevolty" is in error as Maayan Ganim is not a work of responsa or a halachic work.<BR/><BR/>This has been much discussed elsewhere in the context of R' Boruch Epstein's claims to the contrary (& what this suggests about RBE's reliability generally), see e.g.: http://seforim.blogspot.com/2008/01/clarifications-of-previous-posts-by.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-78920273654097534922008-05-05T19:33:00.000-04:002008-05-05T19:33:00.000-04:00Correction to my post from 10:35 AM: Take out the ...Correction to my post from 10:35 AM: Take out the word Avudraham; I don't know how I slipped and included it. Avudraham is decidedly Sephardi.The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-12104610447038461832008-05-05T15:47:00.000-04:002008-05-05T15:47:00.000-04:00mother in israel-I had a minute to doublecheck the...mother in israel-<BR/>I had a minute to doublecheck the book, and sure enough - on pg. 199 she says erusin has happened already, even though on pg. 221 she has the erusin occur at the wedding. This is either a misunderstanding or simple sloppiness; not sure which.<BR/><BR/>Vitry 476-7 does have a ring in use.The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-61641959134768556142008-05-05T10:35:00.000-04:002008-05-05T10:35:00.000-04:00Mother in Israel-Thanks for your link!Machzor Vitr...Mother in Israel-<BR/>Thanks for your link!<BR/>Machzor Vitry (476) does record that they did Erusin and Nisuin together, as your husband notes - but that is what they do in the book. I think she did make the mistake of identifying Yocheved as an arusah before then, but I'm not sure.<BR/>As far as a ring - that's an interesting question. It certainly did not have to be a ring, but they may well already have been doing it. I'll have to check Vitry to see, if I get a chance later.<BR/><BR/>Leora-<BR/>Cards - We find it various historical works, including one she cited in her bibliography, Israel Abrahams' "Jewish Life in the Middle Ages."<BR/><BR/>For Haman, I looked at the works on Rashi's minhagim - Vitry, Siddur Rashi, Seder Troyes and Likutei Pardes, and compared with Avudraham, Maharil and Levush, which are a century or two later and document the post-Crusades development of Ashkenazi minhagim.<BR/><BR/>There certainly is an ancient custom of having the Rosh HaShanah foods she mentions - they actually appear in Krisus 11, as I recall, although Abayye says one need only look at the foods, and not necessarily eat them. Rashi, though, does not mention eating these foods for Rosh HaShanah; he has the other foods I mentioned.The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-84740952733359096342008-05-05T06:40:00.000-04:002008-05-05T06:40:00.000-04:00Interesting list. I have no interest in reading t...Interesting list. I have no interest in reading the book that prompted the list, but I do have some questions about how you do your research. Just because I would like to learn how to do some!<BR/><BR/>>Gambling, cardplaying (pg. 190) [doesn’t show up in Jewish European life until the 15th century]<BR/>How do you know this? Source? <BR/><BR/>>Making noise for Haman in the Megilah<BR/>Same question.<BR/><BR/>We eat beets on Rosh Hashanna (SLK? selek) I believe it's in a siddur we have. So is this custom later than Rashi? Is that what you are saying?Leorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12303493764579879710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-72455569429616432892008-05-05T04:44:00.000-04:002008-05-05T04:44:00.000-04:00My husband said that the idea of separating erusin...My husband said that the idea of separating erusin from nisuin was long gone from Jewish life by Rashi's time--and doesn't erusin include a ring, which happened at the nisuin in the book?mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.com