tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post4909975965285070287..comments2023-09-11T17:58:13.764-04:00Comments on The Rebbetzin's Husband: Are all midrashim to be taken literally?The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-87369098276123367732019-01-08T05:25:49.286-05:002019-01-08T05:25:49.286-05:00My problem with the fantastic explanations offered...My problem with the fantastic explanations offered in the Midrashim is that they are so oblique that they confuse the readers and blur their faith in the literal words of the Chumash. The worst effect of this confusion is that people just can’t grasp on to any part of the Torahs narrative and they then disappear as believing Jews. As if, throwing out the baby with the bath water.<br /><br />We should all be careful what stories we tell because of the effect they may have on other Jews. If you’re not positive of a truth, don’t say it over to others.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14061451046772064574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-67387706632810220532012-02-27T05:15:03.526-05:002012-02-27T05:15:03.526-05:00Rabbi Nachman takes the midrashim of rabba bar bar...Rabbi Nachman takes the midrashim of rabba bar bar chana in a kabalistic way. This I think in a surprising way fits with the tamabam that the midrashim are not to be taken literally but rather meant to refer to a higher spiritual world. If we understand the meaning opf the midrash is not the issue. the point is to what aspect of reality do they refer to.Avraham https://www.blogger.com/profile/07822433921393627746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-6729681409717445772012-02-24T13:00:43.149-05:002012-02-24T13:00:43.149-05:00Melech-
But does the Rambam wish to be taken liter...Melech-<br />But does the Rambam wish to be taken literally? (heh)The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-76874813967900086432012-02-23T22:26:19.173-05:002012-02-23T22:26:19.173-05:00The Rambam in his intro to perek chelek says (R. T...The Rambam in his intro to perek chelek says (R. Touger translation) "they understand our Sages' statements literally...the people who follow this approach are truly pathetic-- May God have mercy on their foolishness. According to their conception, they are elevating the Sages, while in truth they are denigrating them utterly"Melech Tanennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-17975943891344833962012-02-23T21:04:08.540-05:002012-02-23T21:04:08.540-05:00Benjamin:
I think that's a rather weak proof,...Benjamin:<br /><br />I think that's a rather weak proof, actually.<br /><br />Consider how Seder Olam barely deals with the Second Temple era at all, even though lots of events occurred during it. That is because SO is a midrash whose purpose is to interpret Scriptural verses that deal with dates, and the last of these is just a couple of decades after the building of the Second Temple.<br /><br />By the same token, then, it doesn't provide a date for, say, Avraham's ordeal in the furnace - not because they don't really believe it happened, but because there is no verse that gives any kind of date for SO to work with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-43874534335466488442012-02-23T17:29:41.228-05:002012-02-23T17:29:41.228-05:00Thanks for posting - these sources are incredibly ...Thanks for posting - these sources are incredibly important, as in the popular sphere, I have found that many people do tend to take midrashim literally and miss the entire point. It is also incredibly important that people understand that taking midrashim metaphorically is in fact a traditional method going back to the ge'onim (who were intimately more familiar with Hazal's literary genres and modes of expression than we are today), and is not a modern invention.Josephnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-36315429392336578572012-02-23T16:30:22.125-05:002012-02-23T16:30:22.125-05:00I wrote a similar post called "did the rabbis...I wrote a similar post called "did the rabbis believe their own midrashim" - one of the points I made, is that in Seder Olam Rabba, you won't find any dates for any events not actually in the bible - a strong proof that the rabbis did not think Midrashim were historical.<br />http://mostlykosher.blogspot.com/2011/03/did-rabbis-believe-their-own-midrashim.htmlBenjamin of Tudelahttp://mostlykosher.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-41108198093139518532012-02-23T13:39:38.031-05:002012-02-23T13:39:38.031-05:00Shmuel-
I'm not sure I agree, but I'll go ...Shmuel-<br />I'm not sure I agree, but I'll go along with a change to add "all"The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-25739644793225873482012-02-23T10:45:02.867-05:002012-02-23T10:45:02.867-05:00The shiltei giborim is interesting and thank you f...The shiltei giborim is interesting and thank you for pointing it out --I will have to study it inside in more depth.<br /><br />However, I don't understand the hava amina in your "headline" to your post. It's not clear to me whether you are asking: "are [all] midrashim to be taken literally" or "are [any] midrashim to be taken literally." But either way, given the size of the body of work we might define as divrei aggada of chazal, and the number of people that made up "chazal," the different places that they lived and even the different eras that they lived in, how could anyone imagine that there wouldn't be multiple modes of expression, and that each one doesn't have to be understood individually?<br /><br />Of course you understand this, and of course the shiltei giborim deals with it this way (i.e. he doesn't ask a yes or no question but rather gives several approaches to understanding different midrashim), but I think that the false dichotomy and the counterintuitive implied hava amina set up in the headline creates confusion among readers (by readers here I mean lomdei Torah in general).Shmuelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-13796795401897129412012-02-23T08:41:25.861-05:002012-02-23T08:41:25.861-05:00Kabalah at its foundation includes a metaphysical ...Kabalah at its foundation includes a metaphysical doctrine that there are many levels to reality. This is what I assume the midrashim are referring to i.e. the real world; as opposed to this transient world. On the other hand the Rambam probably would not have agreed with this. I wrote a little about the possibility of a reconciliation (by means of the reshash) between the ramabm and the kabalah on my own site because there is no room for this topic in a note.Avraham https://www.blogger.com/profile/07822433921393627746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-11164778940070181312012-02-23T07:43:08.576-05:002012-02-23T07:43:08.576-05:00Adam-
In other words: The midrashim are literal, i...Adam-<br />In other words: The midrashim are literal, it's the world that isn't?The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-19457719021244135412012-02-23T05:18:43.222-05:002012-02-23T05:18:43.222-05:00if you consider this world to be a shadow world of...if you consider this world to be a shadow world of a higher real world then the midrashim are literal.Avraham https://www.blogger.com/profile/07822433921393627746noreply@blogger.com