tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post1126523764897885471..comments2023-09-11T17:58:13.764-04:00Comments on The Rebbetzin's Husband: The greatest issues in chinuch today?The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-28061196681548844092013-09-29T12:26:42.230-04:002013-09-29T12:26:42.230-04:00Wasn't asking based on the content of the conv...Wasn't asking based on the content of the conversation, only because it was starting to look like I was responsible for a lot of the real estate devoted to it and didn't want to hijack it altogether. Lest I be misunderstood, I really appreciate very much that you've never been anything but welcoming and patient with my comments. Shavua tov!bratschegirlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-2337154274166497742013-09-29T08:24:19.577-04:002013-09-29T08:24:19.577-04:00You haven't overstayed in the thread, but I...You haven't overstayed in the thread, but I'm not at all clear on why you would attribute such a position to me. I didn't voice it here, or anywhere, and I don't believe it. Indeed, you might take a look at my stance on biblical criticism just two posts back, as it is the same as my position on atheism: One might very well come to it through rational thought, I just think that it's incorrect.<br />The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-74641779976881307502013-09-25T12:01:36.220-04:002013-09-25T12:01:36.220-04:00I did. "older children should be taught how t...I did. "older children should be taught how to assess the reliability and accuracy of information found online (and, indeed, in books) for themselves..." is pretty much what I meant above when I suggested that insufficient ability to determine whether an argument holds water might be playing a major role.<br /><br />The conundrum comes, of course, in the definition of what is a "reliable" source. Some adherents to any sort of small-o orthodoxy, whether the topic is religion or otherwise, will simply class anything coming from someone outside the fold as unreliable and/or inaccurate, and anything from inside as reliable and accurate, based not on the strength of the argument but on the conclusions reached. Whether or not this happens in your community I have no idea; but someone who has had that experience might, I think, be especially vulnerable to finding a contrary idea attractive simply because it comes from outside.<br /><br />[Let me know when I've reached the point of overstaying my welcome in this particular thread, if it isn't already behind me.]bratschegirlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-51571475266513606342013-09-25T09:50:46.683-04:002013-09-25T09:50:46.683-04:00Both, I think. Did you see Daniel's note below...Both, I think. Did you see Daniel's note below?The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-18392788221678974382013-09-25T00:08:43.247-04:002013-09-25T00:08:43.247-04:00So let's stipulate, for the sake of the discus...So let's stipulate, for the sake of the discussion, that it is as you say above. Do you think they don't recognize that the materials they are encountering are shallow? Or do they not care that they are shallow?bratschegirlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-67383985755159614272013-09-24T21:42:15.633-04:002013-09-24T21:42:15.633-04:00R' Joshua, Adam-
I would lump these under time...R' Joshua, Adam-<br />I would lump these under time and quality teaching; it seems to me that what you describe are the effects of these problems.<br /><br />Daniel-<br />Thanks for expressing my point more clearly than I did!<br /><br />The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-72347950788749057542013-09-24T21:40:12.298-04:002013-09-24T21:40:12.298-04:00Bratschegirl- I don't think I'm saying eit...Bratschegirl- I don't think I'm saying either one. Rather, what I'm saying here is that our students are developing a sophisticated ignorance via their exposure to shallow material on-line, and this includes shallow challenges to Judaism.The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-15424722564677879392013-09-23T20:30:17.193-04:002013-09-23T20:30:17.193-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Paul Shaw Shavivhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03061846455060780619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-85081282730539521062013-09-23T12:33:44.164-04:002013-09-23T12:33:44.164-04:00As a nearly-qualified librarian point 4, in a wide...As a nearly-qualified librarian point 4, in a wide sense, has been a key topic in my librarianship MA: how to teach people that Google and Wikipedia do not hold all the answers and some of what they say may be questionable or wrong.<br /><br />Such an approach needs to be embedded throughout the curriculum as well as in formal information literacy classes (which do not always exist in secular schools, let alone in the time-pressed Jewish school curriculum) e.g. when doing any kind of research project, students should be guided, according to their level, towards appropriate sources and taught why some sources are more reliable than others. At a young age, this may largely be a lists of dos and don’ts, but older children should be taught how to assess the reliability and accuracy of information found online (and, indeed, in books) for themselves.Daniel Saundershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07087956908558706584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-28866438403613016392013-09-23T05:16:56.555-04:002013-09-23T05:16:56.555-04:00Rabbis are not trained in philosophy and so cant a...Rabbis are not trained in philosophy and so cant answer questions. If they would know that then it would not be so bad. But they think they know what they do not know. and they come off sounding like idiots to anyone with the slightest background in philosophy.Avraham https://www.blogger.com/profile/07822433921393627746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-8978974902417429112013-09-23T02:09:42.571-04:002013-09-23T02:09:42.571-04:00Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. If your q...Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. If your question is, say, "why are some of our kids so easily swayed by encounters with even flimsy and superficial approaches to atheism?" then the answer might be that they have been insufficiently taught to evaluate whether they are being presented with an intellectually rigorous argument, and therefore are swept up by one that is passionate, even if on critical examination it is without substance.bratschegirlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-27302261693173414942013-09-23T00:04:54.601-04:002013-09-23T00:04:54.601-04:00I don't concede your point, though. Certainly,...I don't concede your point, though. Certainly, there exists what you describe as superficial online atheism. There is also atheism that is thoughtful and rigorously defined and defended. You seem to be saying that, when a teenager from your community begins to harbor doubts, it must be because of an encounter with the former. I'm just suggesting that that is not the only possibility.bratschegirlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-68980246104704203922013-09-22T21:31:28.671-04:002013-09-22T21:31:28.671-04:00One problem we've run into as school leadershi...One problem we've run into as school leadership is a dearth of testable achievement standards. This is especially a problem for Hebrew language. Although I have also been impressed by my son's achievements through the Tel-Am program, it's impossible to compare our results to other schools or to an Israeli-equivalent grade level. As a school we've looked into this, and it seems that by-and-large the powers that be don't actually want to know (because they suspect that the outcomes are actually pretty terrible).Yannai Segalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16208860797192410949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-26074326174463810002013-09-22T13:23:22.542-04:002013-09-22T13:23:22.542-04:00Lack of knowledge of Tanakh and basic texts becaus...Lack of knowledge of Tanakh and basic texts because of a rush to enter into Talmud prematurely.Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-73122094145448443652013-09-22T12:31:34.691-04:002013-09-22T12:31:34.691-04:00Bratschegirl-
I understand your response and I can...Bratschegirl-<br />I understand your response and I can see that I should have worded it more carefully - but all I meant is that they absorb superficial on-line atheism, not that all atheism expressed on-line (or anywhere) is superficial.<br />How would you re-word the sentence to express that?The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-32768704069295348992013-09-22T12:20:07.183-04:002013-09-22T12:20:07.183-04:00"they read and absorb superficial on-line ath..."they read and absorb superficial on-line atheism..."<br /><br />This comment isn't representative of your usual thoughtful exploration of issues, Rabbi, if I may make so bold as to say so. Not all atheism is superficial; not all atheism expressed online is superficial. Not all expressions of atheism by teenagers are passing fancies, picked up like the latest clothing fad and just as lightly discarded a short time later. By the same token, not all expressions of religious belief or sentiment, whether found online or otherwise, are deep and fully thought through.<br /><br />You, yourself, aren't likely to find any expression or defense of atheism persuasive. That's your absolute right, and I respect and honor the depth of your belief. But some people, even those who are teenagers brought up in sincerely and profoundly religious homes, come to equally sincere positions of atheism. I don't expect you to think they have made the right choice, but I think you do them a disservice by such flippant dismissal.bratschegirlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-81587597007075816982013-09-22T11:20:21.584-04:002013-09-22T11:20:21.584-04:00Batya-
Do you find that North American schools are...Batya-<br />Do you find that North American schools are deficient in this today? I ask because I've been impressed with the Hebrew abilities my kids have picked up in two very different schools. The Tal Am program, used with properly trained teachers, has been effective in establishing a base in spoken as well as textual Hebrew in lower grades, and teachers in later grades have built on it.<br /><br />Mark-<br />I agree this is a great need, although my own experience has been that this is improving. I have seen a big change over the past 30 or so years.The Rebbetzin's Husbandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14977193945074906534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-92003383278064396952013-09-22T09:45:38.935-04:002013-09-22T09:45:38.935-04:00A lack of professionalism among administration and...A lack of professionalism among administration and teachers. No one holds either party to a high enough standard and no one truly oversees what is taking place.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7898782635470765614.post-69040221931746469712013-09-22T03:03:51.889-04:002013-09-22T03:03:51.889-04:00TEACH HEBREW as a usable, spoken, written etc lang...TEACH HEBREW as a usable, spoken, written etc language!!Batyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402874037427009327noreply@blogger.com